Watts to ADD

Guusje Huybregts: Welcome to a new episode of Watts to ADD. In the previous episode, we discussed the pros and cons of gas, concluding that it really is the best solution for us. Can you tell us more about what gas actually is? What exactly does it mean to switch to gas?

Dirk-Jan Houben: Well, it basically means that you have to make choices. You can’t just keep saying that anything is possible, because then you’ll get stuck in your follow-up process. From designing your marketing campaign to enticing parties. So we’re sticking with gas in the sense that this will be our solution as long as we can’t get electricity there in any other way.

G: And what are the risks involved?

DJ: Yes, there are actually two main points, but they are essentially one and the same. Of course, you are less dependent on electricity prices, but you are completely dependent on gas prices. We have all seen what that can do in recent years, both upwards and downwards. That is one point. And the second is that we have a product that we market as being very sustainable. And there is, of course, a chance that a group that considers sustainability very important will say, yes, but you use fossil fuels, even if you have no emissions, I don’t think it’s sustainable. Well, I disagree with that. Because when you buy electricity, you can say you’ve bought green energy, but there’s really no guarantee that it’s from your grid. Green energy is generated. And I think the problem is not so much the fuel, but the effect of the fuel. And I understand that you can’t keep using gas forever, but doing nothing really doesn’t work. And then we really won’t get anywhere.

G: Yes, and if we take this step, does that mean we’ll be stuck with gas in the long term? Or can we still switch at a later stage?

DJ: Yes, we will ensure that we design it in such a way that we can submit the application to Liander. This means that we will also get an electricity connection, but we are not allowed to use it, which means that it is simply there. We will ensure that the complete solution we have for gas can be used. But if, at some point in the future, whatever year that may be, we do get electricity, then it will just be a matter of flipping a switch and we will be connected to the grid in one fell swoop. And then the entire gas installation can be removed.

G: And how does Nuon’s decision to initially opt for gas influence the design of the project?

DJ: Well, yes, quite a lot, actually. Because you have to put those gas generators somewhere, of course. You might have needed fewer batteries if you could have connected to the grid. And you have to put those somewhere too. Those spaces, apart from the fact that you have to include them in the design, have different requirements than if it had just been a parking garage or some other place. That’s why it’s so important to get that right in the design stage and integrate it into the entire project.

G: And how does this affect financing and permits?

DJ: Financing. It has to be paid for. These are not cheap solutions. I think it’s up to the developer to figure out how to solve that. We try to do this with as little external capital as possible, so for us that means, to a certain extent, that it will actually be realized. If there is a tenant and you can attract investment and you have some financial security, then that can lead to different financing and so on.

G: The permit.

DJ: And the permits. I think you will have to apply for some permits, because you are going to build your own incinerator and permits will have to be arranged for that. But as I mentioned earlier, the municipality is willing to help with that. Because the alternative is doing nothing.

G: And what does this mean for the end users?

DJ: Well, I think it’s positive in the sense that they will never have a blackout, so you could even consider it. I don’t know exactly what it means financially to leave it alone, even if you can connect to the grid. Because if there is a blackout, the gas generator can take over immediately, so you are always guaranteed power. It may mean that you pay a little more per kilowatt hour, but because we have such a sustainable project in which we also ask the user to take into account the amount of energy they consume, the total energy price will not be significantly higher. I would even dare to say that it will be a lot lower than what they have been used to until now.

G: Yes, and do you think gas consumption will be penalized in the future? Or that this will really be seen more broadly as a temporary solution?

DJ: Um, I think gas consumption will be penalized in the future in the form of carbon credits. I think we’re all heading in that direction, even though it’s not 100% finalized yet. But what I understand now is that it will be based on emissions and not on fuel. So if we capture that CO2 now, you won’t have any cold, you won’t have to pay carbon credits. And even more so, the expectation is that if you oversize it and you can capture more than you produce yourself, it could also be a revenue model.

G: Okay. And how does it feel to connect the concept, as a truly pragmatic solution? Or is it still a concession we have to make?

DJ: Both. Of course, it’s a pragmatic solution because we are now looking at oversizing, and you could even say that you’re making the planet a better place, despite choosing this solution. But it is, of course, a concession. We would have preferred to just be connected to the grid.

G: Yes, okay. Well, that’s very interesting. We’ve already briefly touched on sustainability here, and we’ll go into more detail in the next episode.

DJ: Super fun!